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HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-02-02 10:50:45

Hey guys, been playing around with the 500 a bit and to my ears and this setup gains the best results.

HD 500 1/4" out to FX Return on amp (JCM 800 w/4x12 Mesa Cab) - This way your amp doesn't color the sound at all. Everything is controlled from the HD500 - Even the volume of the amp.

Full Model Amp sims.

NO Cab / Mic sims.

I am using No FXs, No distrortion boxes, only the AMP models.

Everything else to me sounds to compressed.  What are your thoughts?  If there is a better way to get a more natural sound please discuss.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by ghanson2 on 2011-02-02 11:35:33

I think you are right on the money.  I have tried many, many ways of using the HD and I am settled on the guitar into the HD and the output of the Hd into the Effects return of my ElectraDyne.  It sounds great and really simplifies my setup for a gig.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by maktub2 on 2011-02-02 20:19:16

I've got the same setup.

My questions are:

Which output mode are you using? (STUDIO/ FRONT AMP/ POWER AMP, etc)

What about the volume? I find a really low volume pluggin in the Amp FX Return. I actually change to "Line" on the 1/4" Out. Is this fine? Or I could damage the Amp or the POD?



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by vcuomo on 2011-02-02 21:06:25

cis689:  I use the same setup.  If you look in the thread http://line6.com/community/thread/55340?tstart=0you'll see that this setup is described.

maktub2:  For your setup I would set the system output to POWER AMP.  Setting the switch to Line is fine.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by AlphaScorpious on 2011-02-02 22:10:29

Just curious as to what model JCM 800 you have. I have a 1984 2204 50-watt head and there is no FX return.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by matt34500 on 2011-02-02 22:51:27

I put my Pod Hd 500 in Monitoring Speakers, M Audio Studiophile Av 40 , I Confiure Pod in Power Amp Combo, and it sound very very good .



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by bluepete222 on 2011-02-03 03:26:29

i run an hd500 into front end oftwo dr z amps. fantastic sound. both amps are very clean/full sounding amps which run on el84's. best clean sound ever and cheap in the states.the hd500 is set to combo front with the bass&treble flat and mid focus on 250hz.excellent realistic live sound



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by litesnsirens on 2011-02-03 04:53:20

I run the HD500 1/4" out into the FX return of my Boogie Mark V.  I find the difference in tone is minimal between Studio and Power Amp In when using this configuration but there is a difference.  I only mention it because in this configuration, I have been able to work some tones that translate decently to the house direct and still sound good out of my amp.  As far as using amp and mic sims, I have no rules about that.  I bought the unit not only for the amp modelling but also for the effects so I use them.  I should mention that I am not necessarily trying to make my amp sound like a Twin or a Dr. Z or a Bogner etc.  I am just trying to get some good clean, crunch and lead tones for the various songs that I play.  I don't care how I get there as long as I like the way it sounds in the mix with the band.  I also have a Bose L1 modell II PA system and running direct into this PA using the cab sims etc is the best sound I can get from the HD500, it's simply awesome and because the Bose is a tall (7 feet) cylindrical speaker it gives you the feeling of playing in front of a stack.  The Bose also, as claimed in all the hype, has the best sound distribution you can get.  The sound is evenly distributed at an almost 180 degree radius and doesn't drop off as quickly over distance as conventional speakers.   I have been comtemplating getting a second Bose unit and not using an amp at all, but they are $3000 so it's not a light decision.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-02-03 05:35:59

I've got the same setup.

My questions are:

Which output mode are you using? (STUDIO/ FRONT AMP/ POWER AMP, etc)

What about the volume? I find a really low volume pluggin in the Amp FX Return. I actually change to "Line" on the 1/4" Out. Is this fine? Or I could damage the Amp or the POD?

My 1/4" output on the unit itself is set to  AMP. THe HD Edit is Power Amp If I am not mistaken. I don't gig so usually the channel volume at 100 and the onboard master volume at 12:00 is perfect and loud.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-02-03 05:37:45

Just curious as to what model JCM 800 you have. I have a 1984 2204 50-watt head and there is no FX return

Model 2203x reissue. Excellent FX Loop



RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by ricksox on 2011-02-04 12:58:10

That way you have your POD set up with your amp seems to be the common consensus among most Marshall users.

Glad you found the right setup for your needs.

Line6Miller



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by dschaaf on 2011-02-04 14:31:51

Hi BluePete,

I am running a similar setup with my HD500 outputs (L+R) into the fronts of a Twin Reverb '65 RI and a Vox AC30CC2X and it sounds fantastic as they are both pretty clean as well. I have been using studio/direct but tried your settings for the Combo Front with Bass & Treble flat and mids at 250hz and it sounds pretty awesome too. I think I will definitely try this out more as I know the combo front should be the selected option under this setup.

I have some patches with amp sims and others without depending on the type of tone. There was a previous thread that suggested that when no amp sim was active that the output mode should not matter but on a patch without an amp sim there is still a noticeable difference between studio/direct and Combo Front.

Also, are you using the "pres" of the amp sims of the "full" version and are you leaving on or turning off cabs and mics?

Thanks,

Derek



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Marioperes on 2011-02-05 09:37:51

Hi guys, My set up is wrong? Because the clean sound have a lot of high frequency and i have to decrease the treble in pod and sometime in the amp.so lower too.

The distortion is so weak, not fat distortion. I dont understand...

This is my set up: Ibanez RG550 with dimarzio + podhd500 + Head Marshall JCM900.

So i connect the guitar in pod and the out put L/mono in the Input amp, it`s all. It`s wrong???. I use the footswitch of the marshall for get distortion, but is a crunch distortion.

Can i help????



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-02-06 12:18:49

Guitar to Guitar IN (POD)

1/4" Out (POD) to Return (effects loop AMP)

Set your POD to Studio/Direct and run the FULL amp models and don't use the cab/mic sims. In my opinion, at least for most models this has the "truest" uncolored tone.

Hi guys, My set up is wrong? Because the clean sound have a lot of high frequency and i have to decrease the treble in pod and sometime in the amp.so lower too.

The distortion is so weak, not fat distortion. I dont understand...

This is my set up: Ibanez RG550 with dimarzio + podhd500 + Head Marshall JCM900.

So i connect the guitar in pod and the out put L/mono in the Input amp, it`s all. It`s wrong???. I use the footswitch of the marshall for get distortion, but is a crunch distortion.

Can i help????



RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Line6Hugo on 2011-02-07 09:48:51

With the connection setup you are using, I would actually recommend using the Stack Poweramp output mode (which defeats the cab/mic modeling) for best results using the full models.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-02-07 09:54:42

I couldn't tell a difference between the two (studio/direct and stack power amp) - But to confirm, if I select Power Amp as my output it will auto-disable/bypass all the cab/mic sims in my presets?



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by guitar4himjic on 2011-02-07 10:10:08

so i asked our worship leader if i could bring home one of the pas from church totweak using an frfr system. i want to use the full amp cab and mic sims and want no coloration or anything.  the pa is a mackie something or other with built in preamp and poweramp... by sending the hd500 into the mackie and cranking things up willdo you think there will be potential to clip or overdrive these sections... i am trying to really test the digital clipping referred to in the harsh and fizzy thread with the clean amps and my agile paul copy. if there is potential for the pa to clip and make me think its the clean amp models then i should probably just use a wedge monitor...



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by leemoore on 2011-02-10 08:10:42

I also run my HD500 into the buffered serial effects return of a custom made amp to great effect. Overall the amp is tuned for somewhere between a plexi and JCM800 and I can use EL34 @45 watts, 6L6 @45 watts, 6V6 20 @20watts, or KT66 @45 wattspower tubes. Which power tube type would be suggested to provide the flattest and cleanest response for running a variety of amp sims (Marshall, Vox, Fenders).



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-02-10 08:17:32

I can use EL34 @45 watts, 6L6 @45 watts, 6V6 20 @20watts, or KT66 @45 wattspower tubes.

Where did you get the amp? Sounds fun! : ) What is it?

As far as the tube selection, each will provide it's own subtleties to the sound, that would be your preference.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by leemoore on 2011-02-10 08:33:31

http://www.andersonamps.com/

Wason a waiting list for about 6 months then spent several weeks dialoging with the builder before and during the creation of it. He built and head and a 2x12 open back cab voiced for the head. It's a wonderful beautiful sounding amp. Jack is a real craftsman.

I recently picked up the HD500 and am having fun with the versitility. It sounds awesome through this amp. I noticed the EL34 seem to sound better for Marshall models and 6L6 better for fender cleans but it could be my expectation. I understand  that 6L6's are flatter and cleaner while the EL 34s have a mid hump and less headroom but I've also heard the 6L6's can be scooped. I haven't really gone deep with the HD500 settings yet.

I'm putting together an alternate cab to use with the amp modeling mode; another open backed 2x12 with 2 celestion classic lead 80's for modeling versitility while preserving amp-in-the-room sound. Depending on how much I like it, I may eventually get a dedicated power amp for the modeling rig... or at some point I could just bite the bullet and drop 1500 ish on a dt50



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by litesnsirens on 2011-02-10 08:51:00

Your assessment of tube characteristics is correct, although it's entirely possible that expecting to hear something based on your knowledge can factor in.  I would definitely suggest EL34's if you're going for the Marshall tones.  I actually prefer 34's for cleans too. I'm not a big fan of the high end spank that 6L's are known for and prefer a bit of a warmer smoother tone even on my cleans.  The main thing I noticed when I switched from 6L's to 34's in my MarkV was that in a band situation, my amp cut through the mix better at lower volumes w/o having to fuss with EQ.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cGil on 2011-02-10 11:49:14

The association of "scooped" tone and the 6L6 is primarily due to the preamp in the amps those tubes are most often found in.    If you pull the 6L6's from a Bassman and stick 'em in a JTM45, you'll hear the difference that the tone stack and PI really makes for your tone.   And the OT.  Output Transformers are also huge factor in your tone.  Some folks consider it half the amp's tone, with the speakers being the other half.  That doesn't leave much wiggle room for the difference that different tubes or preamp circuitry can do for tone, but they're really not far off the mark.  Speaker swaps are the biggest bang for the buck when you're looking for a change your tone.  OT's come in a close second.    Ask your amp guru if he used a guitar amp OT, or a HiFi (FBFR) OT.

Oh yeah, check out the new JJ-brand KT77's.  They're designed to be a direct swap for EL34's, so set your amp bias appropriately if it has that option.  Oh, and a big congrats on the boutique amp. They're SO much better than the usual factory made offerings, huh! 

If you decide to go with a dedicated modeler amp, and since you already have speaker cabs, I highly recommend the old Peavey Classic 50/50.  They're no longer in production and used ones sell for around $400 or less.   Bought mine used 15 years ago and it's still running the same set of tubes!  Very dependable, and the OT's are full range with gobs of headroom, so it's excellent for guitar amp modelers, keyboards, bass, vinyl, or whatever.   I use mine with EV12L's.  Another viable option is the Carvin T1000, which is still in production and basically the same sort of FRFB stereo rack tube amp except that it uses two duets of 6L6's instead of the two quads of el84's that the Peavey uses.

Gil...



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by litesnsirens on 2011-02-10 13:06:54

Valid points Gil, but there is definitely truth to the characteristics associated with the different tube types beyond the pre-amps of the amps they are found in.  I can attest to this first hand.  I truly did think my Boogie Mark V sounded great from the day I bought it, and why wouldn't I? It's a great sounding amp.  I was getting these nice big beefy tones that just sounded huge.  The problem is when I played with my band, to be able to hear all that goodness I had to crank up my amp and it was too loud for the mix (even though my tone was awesome...LOL).  Most of the goodness was in the bottom end, I also found that the overdriven tones would get a little fizzy with the 6L6's.

When I swapped out the 6L6's for the EL34's as mentioned earlier my tone cut through the mix at lower volumes.  The tone wasn't as big on it's own, but sounded better in the mix.  I didn't change anything else about the amp, all the same pre-amp tubes and the same OT, speaker (it's a combo so the cab was obvioulsy the same too).  So the change in focus on the amp could only be attributed to the change in power amp tubes.  Overdriven tones were less fizzy on the top end as well.  Most of the guys on the Boogie forums that tried the 34's liked the overdriven tones but would whine about losing the shimmer on the top end of their cleans, as I said already, I'm quite happy with the 34 clean tone.

I would say that you are 100% correct that changing other aspects of the amp are going to make a more noticeable difference than the power tubes.  In fact I would dare to say that if you set up a tone, then swapped out tubes and didn't touch anything on the amp you would be hard pressed just playing alone to notice any difference at all.  Unless you have some farily heavy overdrive going on and then you may notice the smoother top end.  But it was very noticeable when playing with bandmates, I was able to find my place in the mix without taking over.  Actually I should clarify that too, it didn't really make that much difference on the clean tones, more when I was doing heavier rock tones.  I don't play metal, I would suspect metal players may actually prefer the girth of the 6L6's.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cGil on 2011-02-10 13:45:10

Yeah, all that other bang for the buck stuff aside, I still love swapping tubes.  Some folks think it's too subtle to bother with, but to my ears there is a lot of difference between one brand of tube and another.  And then there are the NOS flavors to be savored if you can afford 'em.  They do last forever, so maybe some of the NOS tube prices aren't so unreasonable after all.  Like 20 bucks for a 5751 preamp tube.   But still, that's why I mentioned the KT77's.  They're modern production (more competetively priced), and reported to have tone similar to 6L6's when clean, but when cranked they have a distortion character closer to the EL34's.  Sorta the best of both worlds.

Gil...



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by litesnsirens on 2011-02-10 14:11:39

I have heard lots of great things about the KT77's and I may give them a try sometime.  As far as the power amp tube subtleties go, I would put it this way.  If you are looking for a big change, either get a new amp or swap the speakers.  If you feel like you are almost there but can't quite put your finger on what's missing, try swapping out the power tubes.



Re: RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by whiteop on 2011-02-10 23:31:15

Now that's something I didn't know - that the Stack Poweramp setting defeats the cab/mic modeling. That's something that's good to know...



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by schapman1022 on 2011-02-11 08:27:51

vcuomo wrote:

cis689:  I use the same setup.  If you look in the thread http://line6.com/community/thread/55340?tstart=0you'll see that this setup is described.

maktub2:  For your setup I would set the system output to POWER AMP.  Setting the switch to Line is fine.

What is the difference when setting this switch to Line or Amp? I run my HD500 into the return of my Marshall and have the it set to Stack Return and it sounds fine... so whats the deal with this switch?  Forgive me if this has been answered a 1,000 times before.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by vcuomo on 2011-02-11 18:48:07
schapman1022 wrote:

What is the difference when setting this switch to Line or Amp? I run my HD500 into the return of my Marshall and have the it set to Stack Return and it sounds fine... so whats the deal with this switch?  Forgive me if this has been answered a 1,000 times before.

The LINE/AMP switch (just to the left of the expression pedal on the top of the HD500) will raise or lower the HD500's output signal (AMP lowers it, LINE raises it).



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cGil on 2011-02-11 19:39:32

The Stack setting in the menu system is like a global rig/cab-matching EQ.  

The Line/Amp switch on the top of the HD500 is for setting the general output level of the main balanced and unbalanced outputs.

Line=Line Level Signal, such as should be used to feed an FX loop return on an amp just as you are doing.  Amp=Guitar Signal Level for feeding to the front input of the amp. 

The XLR Ground/Lift switch should really be kept set to "Ground" in most instances.  "Lift" is for when it's simply not possible to lift the XLR ground on the receiving mixer or whatever.  The optimal method for dealing with ground loop hum problems AND shielding the XLR signal wires from RFI is to lift the ground only at the downstream end.  But that's a general guideline, not some rule of law, so the XLR lift switch is good to have just in case.

The Guitar-In Pad/Normal switch is like the Hi/Lo input jacks on older Fenders and Marshalls.  The High impedance input gives you the strongest signal with more sparkle and chime in high impedance passive pickup tone.  The Lo impedance input drops about 6db off the input signal level, but the impedance matching can improve the tone from some active pickups ane/or from some stomp pedals or other gear that may need it.

Gil...



Re: RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Rowbi on 2011-02-12 00:00:18

Line6Hugo wrote:

With the connection setup you are using, I would actually recommend using the Stack Poweramp output mode (which defeats the cab/mic modeling) for best results using the full models.

 

  Regards,

 

  Line6Hugo

hmmm.  not to p1$$ on your chips Hugo, as I know you are a wealth of knowledge on this... But I know the poweramp output modes don't defeat cab/mic modelling when using pre models, so is this something that happens differently with the full models?

it would be easy to test this.  set stack or combo poweramp output mode, with a full model, and then change the cab or mic models.  to my mind the sound should change (like it does with pre models).

Cheers

Rowbi



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Marioperes on 2011-02-12 06:40:25

Hi, thanks for help, I am used the 4 cable method, the sound are very better. I use wha, Compress, distortion and chorus, delay and reverb for de send return fx in the JCM900. The sound is fantastic.

Thanks



RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Line6Hugo on 2011-03-04 08:52:00

Just to add to Rowbi's correction:

The Combo/Stack Poweramp output modes do not defeat the cab modeling, but they DO defeat the mic modeling. This can be head by changing the mic model in this mode. Notice that although it may sound like something is changing, you are hearing the exact same sound with every mic model.

To defeat the cabinet modeling, you would need to select the No Cab option.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Deny777 on 2011-03-04 11:25:54

I'm glad this thread got bumped so I don't have to start a new one. I plug my HD500 into the FX return of my very old Marshall Valvestate 8080 (it was the first valvestate model if I'm not mistaken). I've changed the speaker to a more full range one (similar to a JBL/EV) and when I select Combo Power Amp it sounds fizzy with lots of buzzing high frequencies all over the place. Does this mean my amp has become somewhat "too hifi" for that setting and I should select "Studio/Direct"? It does sound good with the later, just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Here's the speaker tech specs:

http://www.snakepro.com.br/v2/detalhe_produto.asp?id=39792171518OJQS49A



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-03-04 11:38:27

I run Studio/Direct and gain the best results for my personal taste.



Re: RE: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Deny777 on 2011-03-04 12:29:02

@Line6Hugo:

Your post got me thinking, couldn't you guys include a "off" setting for the mic so we could have the ability to turn both cab sims & mics on/off on a per-patch basis? That would be very cool.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by Deny777 on 2011-03-04 19:13:54

Sorry for the multiple posts on this thread, it's just I'm all worked up from trying the Combo Power Amp output mode along with the preamp versions of the amp sims with cab sims off, they sound *awesome*. But here's another question, as far as I can hear, with preamp versions and cab sims off there doesn't seem to be any difference between output modes "Combo Power Amp" and "Studio/Direct", is this correct?



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by surferrsa on 2011-08-28 13:53:15

Hello how are you doing, ok i recently bought myslef and hd500 and i am abit confused becuase i know the hd500

sounds awesome! but a just cant get it to sound good and i am not to good with sound -   PLEASE HELP

This is my setup

Fender 1968 american fender strat

Roland cube 60

Pod HD500

I am only able to use my 1/4 out of the Hd500 into my guitar input of the amp! and

I have tried a setting my cube 60 amp to flat and i have also planned around with both EQ's "ADVICE ON MY EQ SETTINGS" on the cube 60 and HD500. I am not sure how much volume/master to set between the cube 60 and

the HD500. Im getting really bummed - ! -

Should i rather buy a power engine amp OR power speakers / PA - please advice me  because ive never used a multi pedal before.

thank you so much - marktrollip@mweb.co.za

Regards

mark "south africa"




Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by cis689 on 2011-08-31 12:38:46

Hey Mark,

You can experiement here but set the HD500 output to Studio/Direct (use Line Out). Now, with no emulation (FX/Cabs) and your Roland EQ @ Null this should sound pretty darn good. Your results will vary when you emulate amps and FX. It can be done, but you will need a post EQ to try to clean it up as best as possible.

As far as future improvments:

An amp with an FX Loop or a small powered PA.

Good Luck!




Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by surferrsa on 2011-09-05 20:50:36

Howzit cis689 thank you for your replay. I know this might sound abit stupid but could your explain alittle more

in detail?

"""No emulation (FX/CABS) """" I am not sure what you are talking about?

Thank you

Regards

Mark



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by meambobbo on 2011-09-05 22:01:48

I thought I'd chime in with my advice as far as output modes, cabs, and mic settings go.

I run my Pod into the effects loop return of my amp, as well as send it via SPDIF to my computer.  I ALWAYS leave the Pod in Studio/Direct output mode.  This way I don't have to bend over and enter the settings menu to change which way i'm running my output.  I just change patches.

If I'm running to my actual amp, I only use patches that have "no cab" on the Pod.  This ensures there is no speaker or mic simulation. When I run to the computer, I use patches with a cab and mic selected.

With "no cab" selected, I don't think there's any difference between any of the output modes.  When running direct, I want both a cab and mic emulation, which only Studio/Direct gives me.

With the output mode set to anything except Studio/Direct, as Hugo said, the mic simulation is defeated.  Then the cab simulation seems to operate as a simple EQ curve.  Some people may prefer to use one of these output modes to dial in a specific EQ instead of consuming their effects blocks with several EQ effects to dial in their desired sound.  Then you'd have room for other effects.  However, I prefer to use EQ effects and use less other effects.  None of my patches are set up like a pedal-board where you turn individual effects on/off.  I only use patches to change my sound.

+1 to the OP on using full amps, even when running to a real amp's power section, HOWEVER, you can get some good tones using the "pre" versions - they just sound different.  consider them completely different amps.



Re: HD 500 - Configuration for Truest Sound
by amalia_91 on 2013-02-18 14:43:19

Best explanation !!!

http://psg.com/~dlamkins/lamkins-guitar/music/article/hd500

">http://psg.com/~dlamkins/lamkins-guitar/music/article/hd500">http://psg.com/~dlamkins/lamkins-guitar/music/article/hd500




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.